continued on page 3 and then on page 4
3/4/2011 Since I’m partial to beer, I’m not nearly as sophisticated as Scotch drinker (and perhaps others) so I’m struggling to understand some of the issues here, specifically:
We also have to consider that the condition of some areas of the community have deteriorated due to lack of maintenance, so the 6M now seems too high. We could consider making an offer that does not include the golf course and restaurant property lowering our offer even more. Our roads are private not public so we could offset our expenses by charging a toll for all outside golfers that enter our roads to use the golf course and of course there would be a toll for the sewer trucks also.
I?m on a roll now?.How many roads do the carts have to cross to continue play on the next hole? More tolls for outside golfers. It?s getting late now and I?m fresh out of ideas.
3/3/2011 ref: (Cold Shower) Ahhh yes, freedom of expression, I love it along with fine scotch.
I could never be more serious in my postings. In fact I am submitting another.
Well I was musing the other day that we all could band together and make Ken an offer he could not refuse. Did you see the flick?
Here is how it would work. We offer him Ten million for the dump (sorry, but that is what I hear it is from postings).
That would be about six grand a lot owner give or take a little. Now we all become share holders, one lot one share. Everyone is equal. Now the easy part. Since we each own a piece of the action each one of us gets to make up a list of things we want here at SCS. It is so simple a caveman could do it.
Ken could unload the albatross around his neck and escape the trial that awaits him. It would be foolish for him not to take the early buyout if it were offered.
You mentioned being serious, I think our predicament here at SCS is very serious, have so for several years. However from my bit of research we might be in for a costly legal battle. Yes we are getting the short end of the stick but this situation is a lot deeper than some people could ever imagine. Let us hope the forthcoming mediation process is fruitful. Got to run now, have to go shower after I finish this glass of fine scotch.
3/3/2011 GOLF COURSE PURCHASED BY SCS RESIDENTS FOR their 'BENEVOLENT DICTATOR,' KEN KIRKPATRICK
I don't golf and have no idea what it costs to have a membership or just a weekly round or two of golf. But it looks to me like SCS residents who do have those memberships or frequently play the LINKS are paying double. They pay a monthly amenity fee, part of which is used to pay KK's mortgage payment to ERP for the purchase of the golf course. THEN these same residents have to pay fees to play. Isn't that a double whammy??? At least the golf membership or playing fees could be reduced by the portion of their monthly amenity fee that applies to their 'benevolent dictator's' mortgage payment. NOTE: 'Benevolent Dictator' is the term KK used to describe himself at the first SCS town hall meeting. WHAT'S BENEVOLENT ABOUT THAT PICTURE?????? xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx @! Do publish my email address even if you do not want to publish my name.
Not publishing names reminds me of when Hitler made all the Germans turn in their radios so they wouldn't know what was happening. KK got the 'Dictator' part correct.
3/2/2011 If our amenity fees are going for debt reduction, does that mean that we are paying for Mr. Kirkpatrick to buy the golf course?
Quote from Mr. Kirkpatrick's post
"The purchase price was 9.5 Million. The Erp?s (the former owners) held a promissory note on $7.6 Million.
Spruce Creek Golf, LLC is the entity that was formed to be the purchaser for that transaction and that
currently owns all the amenities, roads, common areas, golf courses, nature area and real property within the
Spruce Creek South Development." Everything in other words except our homes and our lots.
Actually the former owner holds a mortgage for $6.525 M as recorded in Marion, Lake and Sumter Counties.
This is public record. In this case and from the information Mr. Kirkpatrick provided, the mortgage
includes the golf course. This is not an amenity available to the residents. We can pay for memberships and pay to play. If our amenity fees are going for debt reduction, does that mean that we are paying for Mr.
Kirkpatrick to buy the golf course?
3/1/11 - To the Scotch drinker. My advice is to lay off the booze.
Take a cold shower and sober up. You said some pretty stupid
things. Most residents take our situation very serious. If you don't
like to see dead horses kicked around, put your mouse over the X
in the right hand upper corner and click. You never have to return
to this site again.
To the individual who feels compelled to utter untruths and nonsense.
My advice to you is to check into the nearest rehab vacility. You poor
soul you're living in a make believe world. There will be no tolls. As for
more special assessments, its not the one man HOA that forced us
into paying an extra $10.00 per mo. for 10 years. Your comments
about steakhouses and speed strips are ridiculous. Get help fast.
3/2/2011 To the writer that believes I should “tune out” as not to be subjected to the writings of others that use this site to express their thoughts on SCS. Do you not know what satire is when you read it? Lighten-up. You mentioned others right of freedom to speak their mind. When serving my country I never faltered in my duty to preserve that right of citizens of this great nation to express their views. “Tune out” never!
There is no doubt in my mind we here at SCS have very, very serious concerns with Ken. In fact at the very first meeting he held with our residents he was asked about most of the items that are redundantly posted on this site. He evaded each of these questions very skillfully, especially the one concerning our out of whack amenity fee structure. I believe he used the term, “that isn’t getting any traction.” You might have attended one of those two meetings. Everyone left the meetings with a feeling he was going to change our community for the better. Well the honeymoon is over.
I do recall the person running this site withdrew it for a while. Perhaps it was because the flailing of Sonny Erp had diminished and the love affair with Ken took over. I am not sure this was the reason but the site was dormant for a while after that time frame.
It is comical at times to read some of the postings as they often ramble from one subject to another without having any common point. On the other hand some are very factual. I did glean some truthful information from this site from time to time. I also had a good laugh at a lot of it. It has been entertaining at times to say the least. Some of it may have bordered on slander. It is apparent there are some at SCS that will always have an adversary relationship with management of any type, good or bad. Perhaps that had been their style in the workplace and they brought that mentality with them in retirement. The owner of this site should be commended for letting everyone express their opinion, no matter how far fetched some of it is. Even I had some fun on my last posting! No, You can bet the farm I am not going to “tune out” I am just going to keep reading these posts and now and then put in my two cents worth.
Yes, Ken has a lot of explaining to do, especially “what is a fair profit.”
Now about “takeover day”, well, I will leave that for another time! Have to refill my glass with more scotch, stay tuned!
God bless America
3/2/2011 This is in response to the writer who thinks the re-paving was done properly! Let's start with the word "assume" which when syllablized is ass-u-me. You obviously wouldn't know a good paving job if it smacked you in your face! According to one of the paving supervisors they laid down the minimum that could be done with their equipment. Did you happen to see any piles of blacktop laying at various places in our community? How about all the truckloads of sewage that are coming to our treatment plant from other areas of Marion County? Don't you think they had anything to do with the deterioration of 176th Street? They paved the 2 boulevards first and now have been running over them with their heavy equipment to pave the side streets. Do you think they really had a plan or was this to appease the disgruntled residents? Do you know of anyone who was informed in advance that their street was going to be paved on a given day so they could plan for deliveries, etc?
Perhaps you've lived here so long that the drinking water has adversely affected your ability to see what's really going on! You might want to spend some time gathering facts before you make any more assumptions about what is really of concern here in Spruce Creek South!
3/1/2011 I feel compeled to respond to the previous writer's post:
Your hilarious take on the post March 21st meeting strikes me in so many ways that I must respond! Having been a long time resident, I could only imagine these types of changes taking effect. Assuming our Community Center would be rebuilt - could you imagine the amount of complaints that would pour into the office from those homeowners living near the Center...or those residents living on 176th, complaining about all the trucks and hammers and the noise all day long while the new building is reconstructed? Don't forget the main road was just repaved; do I smell another "special" assessment coming as the trucks begin to destroy the road? But who will those residents call? Administration will be closed. I suppose they will call their neighbor to complain while their neighbor tells rumors of the Outback Steakhouse setting up shop in our community restuarant. Then more phone calls - All the traffic coming in and out of the community is destroying the roads! Those drivers visiting our community should pay a toll at the guard shack. How dare they enter and support our community! Meanwhile, another "special" assessment will be issued by the HOA Board of Directors as the passenger cars and small SUV's continue to destroy the roads! Meanwhile, the toll at the front gate is now $5.00/vehicle and the Outback Steakhouse has to close and the residents are now upset that there is no restaurant again. Additionally, the golf course will have to raise it's Membership dues to $20,000/person to compensate for the lack of visiting play. But don't worry! Those residents living on the golf course will be less prone to the occassional errant golf shot that sends a ball sailing into their home while the grass on the course grows uncontrolably. Thank goodness. I've heard fellow residents complain that golf balls hit their homes. Guess they should have looked out the back door before they bought. But who now handles all these complaints?? Fellow residents? Board of Directors? I've seen complaints about the street paving - I think they've done a great job. People complaining because of a few pebbles of ashpalt weren't cleaned up. Gimme a break! Just as those complaining about speeders - I have a great idea! Let's place randomly around the community some "state of the art" rapid-deploy spike strips! That'll stop 'em! I guess what I'm saying is - - yes, things need done. We live in an older community. People keep throwing about the word "lawsuit". There is NO lawsuit. Let's work with Management. Let's get active and volunteer time to make this a better place! Meanwhile, those of you complaining about our property values continue to worsen the situation by sharing the same negative comments over and over. If your home was for sale, would you want potential homebuyers reading this? I think not. Let's find an alternative solution and get more participation from our neighbors and stop looking for something to complain about around every corner.
3/1/2011 Answer to "ENOUGH IS ENOUGH"
You had your say. Now let the other residents have their say. Just tune out and you will not be subjected to their freedom of expressions.
3/1/2011 Please, enough is enough. Stop beating the dead horse.
After a while it gets like a broken record, over and over.
Yes we have read about the pool and its problems.
Yes we have read of the paving.
Yes we have read about the condition of the grounds.
Yes we have read about the restrooms.
Yes we have read about other real estate people being locked out.
Yes we know our amenity structure is wrong.
Yes we know our deed restrictions are NOT enforced.
Yes we know of the lawsuit.
But on an upbeat note the residents will soon have control and all our problems will automatically disappear. Every one will be happy. No one will be dissatisfied. There will be peace in the valley. We will have a year-round heated pool with a retractable dome. A full time qualified pool attendant will be on duty to see it is maintained and he or she will perform chemical tests every 2 hours to check for urine in the water. The current Community Center will be demolished and a building such as the Villages Savanna Center will replace it. Our rest rooms will have gold fixtures. All existing landscaping will be removed and Better Homes and Gardens magazine will be asked to come and make us look as pretty as the photos in that publication. All stop signs will be removed; as they now are not heeded, we do not need the aggravation of someone stopping at one in front of us. The speed limit on our roads will be increased to 65 mph so as not to slow anyone down after a day at Wal-Mart. A card system will be installed at our gates that will record your coming and going and take a photo of your tag so it can be cross checked with a master file to see if you really are authorized to be in here. We will have a new restaurant similar to Katie Belles in the Villages. Entertainment nightly, two for one drinks every day. There will be at least twelve full time employees at our service between eight and five each day with a night crew coming on at five. These people will be paid union wages similar to what public employees receive in the states of New York, Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin. We will pay for their full medical benefits. In addition they will receive a “golden” pension package. I just can not wait till after March 21st. Can you?
Please excuse me for now; I have to go replenish my glass of scotch.
3/1/2011 Going back to my earlier email, I want to apologize for reference to "advertising a "Buyers' Beware"
...sounds like a used car lot or something".... I should have selected a better comparison as the majorority of our pre-owned/used car lots have become very reputable and have made great strides in their image in the past few decades. Those of us 55+ recognize the past dilemma about these car lots, but now find we shop for our cars in these used/pre-owned car lots. I do myself.... So, my apology and hope I have not offended anyone who does, in fact, own and operate a used car facility. I am a used car owner myself and will most likely continue to do so for a number of years to come. I hope we are able to make the same strides upward in our community!
3/1/2011 In conjunction with everything else that is going on in SCS, are homeowners aware that Kenneth Kirkpatrick is the Broker of Record for Spruce Creek Real Estate LLC? When KK (and his agents) say that Open Houses are not allowed, it closes the community for professional, responsible marketing of the homes that are being listed for sale. There is NO such restriction against Open Houses in the Deed Restrictions for SCS.
(xxxxxxxxxxxxxx) has been given orders by upper management
to implement a "no spend" policy until further notice.That means,
of course, nothing will be repaired or replaced until further notice.
Several residents witnessed the no spend statement. It is no secret
that the CC rest rooms, entry way and ballroom floor are all in a
deplorable state. The pool area, tennis courts, and volley ball area
are in sore need as well. Get used to it my fellow residents. This is
what happens when a dictator controls the purse strings. We are being
punished for being dissatisfied. A real Home Owners Association (HOA)
should determine how and when maintenance funds are spent. Our
single member HOA is KK, the managing Co. leader is KK, the not so
silent owner is KK. Do you see a pattern here? Has it been determined
that the beautiful large American Flag will no longer fly proudly at our
main gate, because its too expensive? Have the Vets. club complained?
Suppose the residents stick together and agree to a no pay policy with
regard to monthly fees, I'll wager that a giant clean up, fix up campaign
would quickly be implemented. Wake up folks, let's get rid of the middle
men. Residents should own SCS. A reliable managing company
can take care of security, landscaping and maintenance details for
half the price we are paying. Many years ago Sonny Erp offerred
the home owners the priviledge of running the recreational portion
of his responsibility. This involves no fees, no funds and no profit.
Of course, we residents turned him down. Erp got back at us by not
allowing the property owners to belong to the HOA. (Only he and
his wife were HOA members, back in the day). I could go on forever,
but I feel that I'm sowing seeds on infertile ground. Bye bye.
This is a reply to the writer that gave a detailed description of the sinks in both the men’s and ladies rooms. Having used only the gentlemen’s room recently while enjoying a show at our community center I must say I did not find the problems the writer did in the men’s room. In fact I found it quite clean. The federal government regulates the temperature of the air that is emitted from hand dryers in public restrooms.
On another notes, it is common knowledge Ken now has our attention. Absolutely it is morally wrong for him to take the obscene profit he does. (No matter how he accounts for it).
If the pool has a leak let’s have one of the many competent pool repair companies do the proper repairs. If it needs a more modern filtration system so be it, get it. Yes we do need decent tables at the pool with shade umbrellas. As for ashtrays, I am not so sure we need smoking at the pool.
Just a note not related to most of the postings on this site. I am impressed with the guys and gals that play at our ball field. With little help from SCS they keep that field immaculate.
2/28/11 - We can't believe anyone would post ignorant statements and identify themselves.
There are many negative comments on this venue, I wonder why? Could it be that they are
true? Since you have a lot of guts, why don't you identify those comments you say are false.
Where did you get your information regarding the number of people against "this lawsuit"?
You don't even know how many people live in this community, it's not 1200 or so. Your off
by more than 50%. Madame Zone Rep. do you know how many people are in your zone?
There are more than 2000 signatures on the petition to seek legal help and go foreward.
This constitutes a majority. Is there a zone rep. or phase leader that can say they've
identified and resolved a single problem?
There is and always has been an HOA here at Spruce Creek. The only member of the HOA
is not a home owner, how can that be, his name is K. Kirkpatrick. Is this the same man that
owns the management co.? Yes indeed. Is this the same man for all practical puposes calls
himself the owner of Spruce Creek South? Yes indeed. These facts are true and can be proven.
Let's review for a second. The primary owner of SCS, the management company CEO and the
single HOA member is one and the same. Do people with a lot of guts and no brains recognize
a dictatorship? Maybe not. Shame on you for not knowing the situation you find yourselves in. Do
you still wonder why there is a lack of cooperation with the present owner, management and HOA?
Perhaps you should get your own minority petition and sign a waiver excluding yourselves
from any of the benefits realized from the pending legal action.
Signed, Gutless but not ignorant, still anonymous.
2/28/2011 I visited the OURSCS web-site. I feel that there is a problem with the community. I
The first correspond sent to management was in the fall of 09.
The residents of Spruce Creek South, don't need a benevolent dictator or any other type of dictator.
Why are our amenity fees being used to pay a mortgage to the prior owner?
This money is supposed to be used to maintain the community.
Let's take a look at the community center, the smell of mold when you walk in the front door.
The screens to cover the storage area, the lobby has been turned into.
New cheap faucets were put in the men's room without stoppers in the basins,
and the old rusted stoppers were left on in the basins in the women's room.
The formica is worn down, the floor tile doesn't match, the hand dryers have no pressure,
the entry doors are filthy.
A 20 year old development need more than a band-aide.
The improvements are done cheaply and these problems will come back again and again.
Replace, not repair.
The delay and stall is over. Time to shape up or pack up.
Spend the amenities for the community. Don't spend it to pay your mortgage.
To call a meeting and not take any questions, is an insult.
I don't want to hear a speech, that is a move of a dictator.
If you want to make a statement, send the residents a letter.
I am not concerned about the different amenities fees.
I'm concerned the amenities fees
are being used to improve the community.2/27/2011 COMMENTS
THE SITE AGREES THAT COMMENTS ARE GETTING OUT OF HAND. TO MINIMIZE THIS, NO NAMES OR EMAIL ADDRESSES WILL BE PUBLISHED. PLEASE PUT THE DATE AND YOUR SUBJECT IN THE MAIN LETTER BOX, IN ORDER TO HAVE A REFERENCE FOR OTHER EMAILS TO RESPOND TO YOUR PARTICULAR COMMENT.
2/27/2011 Thanks Jerry and Larry for your very sensible request. It is needed. Several comments have gotten somewhat personal lately.
Your suggestion that the March 10 meeting be cancelled also has merit. At this point our residents are in no mood to discuss Deed Restriction updates. They have much more to be concerned about at the moment than the height of bushes or dirty roofs and driveways. Let us hope cool heads prevail at the mediation.
Thank You, Concerned Resident
2/27/2011 RESPONSE TO BIXLER RE ZONES AND FALSEHOODS:
I commend your willingness to serve your community as I have also done such as driving the SCAT Security Car for two years and serving as secretary. But I believe your position as a zone rep is simply enabling management to abuse us as a community. They get paid to maintain this community and obviously if they can get people in the community to do the work for them, spotting eyesores, they make a little more profit. It appears all they do is send nasty letters to our elderly population who are struggling to keep up. Management is NOT "trying to uphold 'their' end of the deal in keeping Spruce Creek South one of the most desirable communities to live in" according to Jim Day's Oct. 11, 2007 letter to residents. I could suggest better ways to serve the community such as being part of a HELP group who replaces bulbs in lightposts for ailing residents who shouldn't climb ladders. Or follow the roadworkers and clean up the mess they leave behind.
DID I MISS THE COMMUNICATION SENT OUT BY MANAGEMENT AS TO THE ZONES AND WHAT AREA OF THE COMMUNITY WAS COVERED IN EACH ZONE?????? I recall zones when Swanee Preston developed the COMMUNITY EMERGENCY RESPONSE TEAM (CERT) program here in SCS. We had 17 zones. Now we have 8?????? CERT was ended by management. How was the information disbursed to residents that a map was available at the community center to find out which zone each person lives in??? Did everyone have to go get a map, even those people in wheel chairs, living alone??? How convenient. Did you even think of that?????????
AS TO FALSEHOODS ON THIS SITE, NAME THEM AND WE'LL SEE. ANY FACTS I PUT ON THIS SITE CAN BE RELIED UPON AND I CAN BACK THEM UP WITH EVIDENCE FROM EITHER PUBLIC RECORDS OR MANAGEMENTS RECORDS. Or were you referring to the 'mistake' Mr. Gerth made about "Petitioning not being allowed per the Deed Restrictions." He hung up on me three times when I called to find out 'WHERE' in the deed restrictions. Such ZONE REPS we don't need. He didn't have the balls to make a public apology for his 'mistake.' I don't know you and I'm sure you are a nice person because you offered help for the community, but I think you need to step back and take a second look. By the way, there are 1624 homes and that means about 2500 residents. There are 1300 supporters of our petition. Posted by Judith Keith (include my name).
2/27/2011 We have read the viewpoints posted on ourscs.com and in our opinion, everyone should consider postponing further comments until after the Mediation Meeting on March 21st. What have we gained if at the end of this process, win or lose, we pit neighbor against neighbor. Over 1,200 residents signed the Petition to support the Concerned Residents about the following Major issues: 1) Use of the Amenity Fees to pay the Mortgage 2) Control of the Homeowner's Association 3) Equal Amenity Fees 4) Remoderling or Replacing all SCS Amenities 5) Equal opportunities for all Real Estate agents and Homeowners. Mr. Kirkpatrick states that SCS is a better place now than under the former owner. We respectfully disagree. Let the Mediation, or in the final analysis, a Lawsuit proceed under our Justice system. The outcome is too important to all Residents so let us not degrade the process by inflammatory comments. Mr. Kirkpatrick, we also feel you should postpone the March 10th Meeting on the Deed Restrictions until after the Mediation Meeting, Signed: Jerry and Larry Spellman
2/27/2011 You tell them as YOU are so right. and you give so much to this community, I congratulate you! unsigned due to retaliation possibly among some residents pushing this issue, not management.....
2/27/2011 According to Pam Bixler there are over 400 abandoned homes in SCS. She mentioned 1200 residents. Now there's a well informed leader! And she wrote about false information! Wow. now that's impressive!
2/27/11 - It is my general opinion that Kirkpatrick and his cronies (investment partners) have found
the "golden goose". They collect approximately $2.6 million dollars a year (2010), in fees, to pay
off the mortgage for this place. What's left over is their income minus a small amount (little as
possible) for SCS Rec. & Maint. Only a skeleton crew remains to take care of security, landscaping,
maintenance and recreation. End of year bonuses to all, for an outstanding job of hood-winking
the senior residents and paying them lip service whenever possible. One way of looking at our
predicament is: - We are buying SCS and common areas, not for ourselves, but to give away. And
before we give SCS away, let's repair the roads so the partners have no worries about potholes etc.
I don't think Ali Baba and the Forty Thieves could envision a sweeter scam. (This is only my opinion.)
2/26/2011 KEN & JIM
YOU NEED TO TOUR YOUR INVESTMENT
And see the work your people are doing, you get what you pay for.
WOMENS RESTROOM Lets start in the women's restroom at the pool, The superintendent of operations put in two different colored fixtures in there, one white and one cream color. Would you do this in your home ? We were told this was only tempory that's been a few years. Shower floors are in bad need of paint.
VOLLEYBALL COURT While your in that area look where we only have one volley ball net up used to be two.
Now the pool deck paint in bad shape, two different color lounges, the new ones are so low old people have hard time to get out or off of them. There is about 15 missing also. There are no ash trays.
Who ever fills the pool puts in to much water so the bugs & leaves don't skim out, the gutters are a drain for floating objects. The State requires a certin amount of Clorine, your using house tablets. There are two HOUSE HEATERS not comerical heaters, only one works has to work twice as hard to keep temp up.
Look over where the cars & golf carts come around the corner to the pool parking lot, them busches need to be lowered a lot so you can see whats coming. There is constant people eating food on the deck no one checks, lot of people no name tags, Jumping & diving in, these are you rules enforce them or take the signs down.
What a real joke your people are getting in to the tub with no therapeutic value at all. No thrust at all, hold your hand over it you can stop it. Only three jets have thrust and that's the hot water return. New state laws as of 2011 our tub is not up to standards. Do you understand we need this for therapy I guess not, were just old people that complain all the time. Just fix it that's what we pay for. The sand that comes is is fine makes our feet think we are at the beach. THE COCKTAIL UMBRELLAS what a joke and waste of money, my golf umbrella is bigger than they. THE LILLY PADS that were supposed to keep the pool warm , who's bright idea was that? They probably spent 3 days building the cage to put them in.
People play on them but they don't have a choose, visiting teams don't what to play here.
Lighting needs attention, and pickle ball is a real joke.
The exit to 441/27 needs fixing bad but your doing the least traveled areas the culdesac, and redoing streets you just did, hope they clean up there mess they are leaving and don't blow in my yard.
We have A television for watching in the office, I never seen TV in a work environment.
The Mold is present when you come in the front lobby
Come in the door by the pop machine look at 3 inch grout on right hand side, you would not have such a job in your home. Kitchen needs a good cleaning, Floors in ball room need lots of THC. Pool room tables paid for by residents why ? Sound work & sound stand has done by residents Why ? Exercise room smells sweat, equipment old and in adiquite. Saua what a joke. This stuff all needs to be replaced its old and been worked hard.
Emergency phone out side by exercise room should be out by the pool not where it is, and check batteries often, not been resealed since we need it and had to go to the kitchen to get 911 and some help in the pool.
YOUR MAINTANCE AREA MOLDY ROOFS ALL KINDS OF JUNK AROUND. Your gray mail box ours are black.
WHY NOW THE RUSH ? IS THE PAN GETTING WARM??
Your the one that was stalling and having to get your act together. It started out you did not take us serious. Were serious as hell and 1400 plus names should get the media attention soon, Elder abuse, fraud, just to name a few. IRS oh well, State Licenses, stuff done with out permits , yes we are serious. Its in your court you have been served.
INVITE YOUR INVESTORS AND BOARD MEMBERS YOUR ON TO SEE THIS PLACE UP & CLOSE. INVITE THEM FOR LUNCH AT YOUR CLUB HOUSE. THEN SHOW THEM OUR CLUB HOUSE & POOL,TENNIS COURTS.
Many people paid up front costs to lawyer. Now THREE law firms on contingency
2/26/2011 We can't believe anyone would question Ken Kirkpatrick's (or any other person's) integrity and not sign their name. People have posted some very negative (and some entirely false) comments anonymously. It really shows how gutless you are. Get involved by owning up to your opinion. Also, as many of you as there are who are angry regarding this lawsuit thing, believe me there are just as many of us who think you are very wrong to take this avenue. When you make comments that you are representing all, or most, or the majority of homeowners, please know that you are not. You may think you are succeeding by getting an HOA in here, or by getting Sonny back in here, but count us out! (Now, watch how many people respond to this - anonymously, of course.)
To answer a question that was posted, I (Pam Bixler) am one of the Zone Reps. In (or about) March of 2009, there was an article in the Hi Neighbor and on e-Neighbor from Jim Day regarding the start-up of a committee to help identify and solve issues around the community. Out of - 1,200 or however many residents there are in here - exactly 10 people responded. Not one other person was even interested. We were not picked by Management, we volunteered to help. Maps of the Zones are available at the community center, as well as the names and phone numbers of all ten of the reps. We have also been identified in the Deed Restriction letters (by name and with our phone numbers.) Maybe, if push comes to shove and you are ready to take over the homeowner's association, you will get the same response. Or maybe some of the people who are so vocal anonymously will be the first in line to be part of the HOA. Be careful what you wish for . . . Jeff and Pam Bixler
2/26/2011 MR. KIRKPATRICK I RECOMMEND THAT YOU DISBAND EACH AND EVERY GROUP SELECTED TO ADVISE YOU/RECOMMEND AMENDMENTS TO DEED RESTRICTIONS (IF RESIDENTS DIDN'T LIKE/AGREE TO THEM THEY WOULDN'T HAVE PURCHASED IN SCS TO BEGIN WITH.) ALL OTHER
GROUPS MADE UP OF RESIDENTS OF SCS. IT WAS SHOWN/PROVEN TO PREVIOUS OWNER OF
SCS THAT NO RESIDENT WANTED A HOA. IT IS FELT THAT CERTAIN GROUPS (EXCEPT THOSE
FOR ENTERTAINMENT) ARE MADE UP OF BIASED OLD FOLK WITH NOTHING BETTER TO DO THEN
TO RIDE AROUND THE COMMUNITY AND LOOK FOR FAULTS.
EVERYTHING THESE SO NAMED GROUPS DO IS THE PURVIEW OF MANAGEMENT. IF THOSE IN MANAGEMENT CAN'T GET THE JOB DONE WITHOUT OPINIONS OF GROUPS THEN THEY SHOULD BE REPLACED.
IF YOU WANT THE OPINIONS OF " ALL" THE RESIDENTS OF SCS THEN PREPARE AND DELIVER A
FORM REQUESTING ANSWERS TO CERTAIN QUESTIONS ASKED OR ASK FOR VOTES ON SPECIFIC
ITEMS. TRY BEING MORE DEMOCRATIC IN YOUR APPROACH.
I ALSO RECOMMEND MANAGEMENT BE MORE FORTHRIGHT IN THEIR ANSWERS TO RESIDENTS
QUESTIONS/CONCERNS. ALSO MANAGEMENT (INCLUDING MR. KIRKPATRICK) SHOULD STOP
BEING SO DOGMATIC.
I HOPE SCS RETURNS TO THE GOOD STATE IT Was IN WHEN IT OPENED AS A NEW COMMUNITY AND I DO BELIEVE A LOT OF THE GRIPES ARE HOLD OVERS FROM THE ERP ERA THAT WERE NEVER RESOLVED AND THAT CONTINUE TO FESTER BECAUSE THEY ARE PERPETUATED BY THE
2/26/2011 That operating statement is VERY interesting. Included in the "expenses to maintain the community" would be a "Management Fee" of roughly $15,000/month according to what I've personally seen. Are you aware of that??? Plus $80,000/month to Erp & Partners & another $14,000/month (ficticious) for depreciation. My goodness....this is getting very scary!
2/26/2011 TITLE: 2008 & 2009 INCOME & EXPENSE STATEMENT POSTED BY Spruce Creek Recreation, LLC.
This is the second time I have tried to post this spread sheet to show how much of our amenity fees go to maintain our property and how much goes to benefit the Partners. Looks like 50% to me.
I am putting this information in this email as an attachment, so please look there. Please post my address for any questions: firstname.lastname@example.org
2/26/2011 We have been here almost 5 years now and have never heard of "Zoning Representives". I would respectfully like to ask for a break-down of the areas covered (maps) and the Zoning Reps names for future SCS questions
2/26/2011 Just one more point about the "integrity" of KK and his brain trust. Has anyone been notified in advance that their street was being redone? How much effort would it take to notify residents in a timely manner of the pending inconvenience? Was any consideration given to the possibility of home delivery of furniture, health supplies, or perhaps attempting to correct an issue that was created by the hundreds of letters sent by Heritage Mgt? Just one more example of their inconsideration for those who are being abused!
Does anyone care that an elderly woman sold her home for $20,000 and walked away because she was upset about the receipt of a "Linda letter" among other issues and that a person recently purchased a home here for $30,000 less than he sold his mobile home for in the Villages?
Perhaps it is not a concentration camp but it's a hell of a lot closer to that than the adult community that most residents expected when they invested for their retirement years!
2/26/2011-- The writer who mentioned the restaurant certainly does have mixed feelings. I would also say
the individual is mixed up. The fact that the "Missing Link" has failed several times has nothing to do with
residents failing to support it. Even non-residents didn't like the place. The restaurant would have been
a success if the owners of the property didn't require rent as well as a healthy slice of the profit. This is
something Sonny Erp tried. It did't work then, it won't work now and it will never work as long as the
property owner (Heritage) places such a large burden on the restaurant manager. The restaurant would
succede and people would line up and wait to be seated if:
#1 - Reasonable rent alone is paid to the property owner.
#2 - The food is not pre-processed, cooked elsewhere, frozen and delivered.
#3 - The service staff is trained to a professional level.
#4 - Pricing is competative.
In my opinion it is the restaurant that should support its valued customers, not the other way round.
Sonny and the present owners blame residents for their failure. I say Baloney!
2/25/2011 #1. Kirkpatrick lied when he said he contacted the 'group.' He called one person for a one-on-one with one person
and wanted no attorneys present.
#2. Kirkpatrick said he didn't know of the problems but he received our attorney's demand letter in August of 2010.
#3. Kirkpatrick says he re-activated the HOA after he bought the community but according to Florida sunbiz.org
he merely renewed the HOA on March 6, 2008 and added himself as Registered Agent and deleted the ERPS.
#4. Kirkpatrick says each new buyer was given a disclosure for the amenity fee. However, were these buyers told that
the fee would be more than the seller was paying and that actually there was no 'active' home owners association.
#5. Kirkpatrick states he created Spruce Creek Recreation, LLC as the operating entity and that is why the maintenance
fees are paid to Spruce Creek Recreation, LLC. TRUTH: Spruce Creek Recreation, LLC is a FOR-PROFIT business
while the Spruce Creek South Homeowners' Association is a NOT-FOR-PROFIT Corporation and he would not have
gotten away with the rape of our community under the later as it limits profit to "reasonable profit."
#6. Kirkpatrick claims to have never met any of those involved in the lawsuit, yet he played golf many times with one.
#7. Kirkpatrick claims we "need a better mechanism of communication." We do and since he has never responded to
any of the phone calls or letters from residents, we found a better mechanism and that is a LAWSUIT.
submitted by email@example.com
2/25/2011 From Ken Kirkpatrick
In an attempt to try and make some progress on any of these fronts, I contacted the group coordinating the lawsuit to request a meeting. I simply requested the opportunity to get together and begin the process of trying to find solutions to problems. They chose not to meet with me or discuss the very problems that all of you demand I fix. I was told that since the Mediation was already scheduled (March 21), we need to let the legal process take its course.
While I respect their decision, I think it is wrong for the following reasons:
There are already a number of items we probably already agree to. Meeting before hand allows us to make progress on some areas while narrowing the focus at the mediation to the main topics.
Going into the mediation with a common understanding of each other’s needs and wants makes it easier to negotiate because each party knows what is important to the other.
In order for Mediation to work BOTH parties have to agree to cooperate, and meeting before allow us to establish some level of trust that we will need later (don’t laugh).
If you rely on the legal process to solve all these problems, you will be sorely disappointed. I meant what I previously said about being committed to trying to resolve these issues, however if you stay the current course many the options we currently have will not be available in litigation.
If the goal of this effort is truly to make Spruce Creek a better community for all, I’d suggest asking the group to rethink the harm in meeting to try and do just that.
2/25/11 - In response to Mr. Kirkpatrick's comments. I am a long time resident who has witnessed the systematic
downgrading of our amenities. Oh my gosh, can it be that you are not aware your underlings have terminated many
employees? One elderly woman is now the recreational director and is in charge of maintenance,security, and
landscaping. Really, four hats for XXXXXXXXXXXXXX, what a sham. It is not easy for her to continue to
accomplish that which we've become accustomed. I believe she is overworked and under paid. Unless, of course,
she earns a commission based on your reduced expenses. The administrator, with an attitude, that you placed
in the CC doesn't seem warm or sympathetic to our problems. From your viewpoint I'm sure she's an excellent
worker. From our viewpoint she'd be more helpful cleaning the disgusting restrooms.
The term Developer somehow doesn't seem to fit any more. Owner/Manager is what we have, the worst of all
possible arrangements, we have no voice in matters and no real Home Owners Association.
Following are some of my concerns:
- Some of our recreation/maintenance fees are being used by the owner/management company (O/MC)
to pay off their mortgage. Thus reducing the amount spent on maintenance. Unethical and maybe illegal.
- Some of our fees which should be used to pay for the basic cable channels are not being forwarded to the
cable company. We are also paying taxes for basic cable service. Chances are the taxes are not being
paid to the state. This smacks of fraud. Where is this money going?
- The Spruce Creek South (SCS) roads which belong to the O/MC are being ruined by the heavy waste being
trucked to the processing plant. The waste is not from Spruce Creek residents. Why are residents being
charged for road repairs when the damage is caused by others and the roads do not belong to the residents?
- The pool hasn't been sufficiently chlorinated for several years. All random tests performed by a resident
have indicated very low levels of chlorine. Having skin problems? Notice the algae in the pool and mildew
on the pool deck. Is chlorine so expensive that our resident's health must be compromised?
- Has anyone wondered why the hot tub doesn't work properly? Have you noticed that the water jets are
spewing air and sand instead of pressurized water? Frequent top ups are required because of the leaks.
- A Recreation Director and/or helpers used to be on hand for 12 to 14 hours a day, seven days a week at the
community center and pool area. Rules and regulations were strictly observed. Apparently the O/MC found
it neccessary to reduce expenses and terminate these employees. Security personnel were also dismissed.
Many rules are now ignored. Have any of these savings been passed on to the residents? Of course not.
There are many other areas of neglect at SCS, here are just a few: (Tip of the iceberg.)
Reduced street lamps by half has compromised security and reduced expenses. Rebate to residents - None.
CC ballroom marble tile floor no longer being waxed, polished or repaired. Rebate - None.
What happened to the American Flag that was proudly displayed? Too expensive? Rebate - None
Horse-shoe players, softball teams, tennis groups and others are covered with
insurance provided by the O/MC. Why must the newly formed air gun club
purchase their own insurance? Ever been hit with a flying horse-shoe or baseball bat?
Mr. Kirkpatrick, how long do you think SCS residents will stand for the chipping and hacking away of our amenities?
In the Erp era, we had none of the afore mentioned problems.
Sincerely, a friend and concerned SCS resident.
2/25/2011 After having read the most recent posts on this site I truly wonder if KK knows what "integrity" really is? Perhaps having been born with a silver spoon in his mouth he doesn't realize how hard many of the homeowners here have worked to get here to pay off his mortgage!
2/24/2011 KEN KIRKPATRICK IS NOT TELLING THE TRUTH.
KEN, You stated in your email that "the first notice I had that there was any problem whatsoever was the day I received a certified letter from the attorney threatening a class action lawsuit". Not true , two years ago I sent you and Mr. Day a letter stating that the amenity fees at that time were unfair.You never had the insight to answer the letter. The only thing not in disrepair is the golf course and that's because Mr. Darren Irwin knows whats needed and does his job.I think the only reason you welcome the opportunity to have dialogue now is, because you have been taking advantage of the people at spruce creek, and they are fighting back with a lawsuit.If your serious , you'll do whats right and I doubt that.
2/24/2011 Ken - I completely agree with the comment prior to this one. Your "letter" on this website shows your true colors. Your views are very obtuse. Don't you realize that fixing the problems that the majority of us are concerned about would improve and correct the situation we are in today? The only good thing that remains in this community is the golf course. What I find even more concerning is that no portion of our fees supports the course or am I wrong? My point is - - where is the money going? We have a community center that when walking in the front door smells alot like mold. The pool leaks and jucuzzi is constantly broke down - the classic line we're always told is "the parts are on back order" or "they shipped the parts to the wrong Spruce Creek". These lies get old to all of us and we're sick and tired of hearing the same old thing. Unlike other complainers on this website, I believe we SHOULD be paying higher amentiy fees than other communities around us. Our community is older and older "things" require more maintenance and more repair. I am not a fan of paying higher amenity fees when the community is not being cared for. Have you seen the exercise equipment? The exposed electrical wires and boxes near the street lights up and down the boulevard? How about the run down, cracked tennis courts? The gates that are always broke down? The moldy retaining walls at the front of the property - if our house looked like that we would get a letter! How about some of the rude Security guards? How can we expect to sell our homes when the first person greeting them is a grouchy old ex-cop? I will say, Ken, that the grounds are very well cared for and your staff does an outstanding job, but that is only a piece of what would make this community attractive to folks when we want to sell our homes. Make this a more desirable place to live! The restaurant is a constant issue. I have mixed feelings. A fellow resident tried to make this work and our community did not support him. Shame on us for that. At the end of the day, we want a nicer place to live, a place we feel proud for our guests and family to visit; a place we know we can sell when the time comes; a better maintained Community Center and staff that doesn't give us lip service.
2/24/2011 Mr. Kirkpatrick, you insult the intelligence of Spruce Creek residents. Your "perspective" and "clarity" that you projected in your recent letter is too little, too late. I guess it takes a class action law suit to get your attention. Your newly acquired phoney concerns does not sit well with a majority of the residents.
2/24/2011 For the poster who asked about us paying Kirkpatrick's mortgage payment to Sonny and Brenda Erp.
Scroll down to the postings of 2/1/2011 or so and read. You will find that the Erps receive $52,564.96 per month from Kirkpatrick. Where do you think this comes from? Wonder why they can't repair the pool leaks or the tennis courts?
For Mr. Kirkpatrick, I'm sure you must have heard that there are 1,300+ signatures on the petition that was circulated. How do you explain this many unhappy residents? I know...you don't have to.
2/24/2011 If I read the message from Ken correctly the residents of SCS are paying for the loan he and others obtained to purchase our development.
He says, "We purchased the development because we thought we could do a better job running the development than the prior owner, we could service the debt and make a reasonable profit for our investors."
Does he mean his debt payments to the Erp's come off the top of our residents amenity fees? Are we paying the $7.6 million note for Ken and the other investors? Unless I missed something that is what he is saying.
As Ken owns the company that manages SCS, he also gets a fee for this service.
It appears we have Ken's debt to pay, his profit to pay, a road assessment and a management fee before one cent is used for amenities.
On another note, The writer using the word "concentration camp" and comparing it to SCS, perhaps has never been to Germany or Poland to actually see first hand what they are referring to. If they had, they would know we are by no means a "concentration camp".
Some serious concerns, yes, but nothing that would compare us to The Third Reich.
2/24/2011 DEAR MR KIRKPATRICK
IN RESPONSE TO YOUR SUDDEN DISCOVERY OF OUR PROBLEMS. WOW I'M JUST AMAZED THAT YOU A PROMENENT BUSINESS MAN IS SO OUT OF TOUCH WITH HIS BUSINESSES LIKE SPRUCE CREEK SOUTH. YOUR STAFF SHOULD ALL BE FIRED IF THEY DIDN'T CONTACT YOU REGARDING THE COMPLAINTS THEY HAVE BEEN BOMBARDED WITH ON WHAT NEEDS TO BE UPDATED AND FIXED IN THIS COMMUNITY. FROM THE SHABBY FACILITIES TO THE FALLING DOWN EQUIPMENT IN THE WORK OUT AREA. THE TENNIS COURTS ARE ALMOST READY TO BE CONDEMNED, AND THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THE MONEY YOU PUT OUT FOR THAT CAN OF PAINT FOR THE PICKLE BALL LINES. IT PROBABLY BROKE THE BANK AND TOOK AWAY FROM THAT PROFIT YOU ARE MAKING. AS FOR MEETING YOU AND KNOWING YOU, HOW COULD ANY OF US HERE AT SCS DO THAT, YOU KEEP YOURSELF WELL HIDEN, WHERE DO YOU LIVE WE WOULD ALL LIKE TO SHOW UP ON YOUR DOOR STEP AND SEE YOUR LIFESTYLE AND CONDITION OF YOUR AMENITIES. LETS DO LUNCH MR. KIRCKPATRICK AT YOUR COMMUNITY CENTER RESTURANT, WE'D HAVE YOU HERE BUT WE DON'T HAVE ONE. I'M POSTING ON OURSCS.COM SO ALL CAN READ THIS NOT ONLY YOU, AND LETS HOPE IT DOESN'T TAKE ANOTHER 4 YEARS BEFORE YOU READ THIS SO LETS KEEP IN TOUCH...
2/24/2011 Mr. Kirkpatrick;
Thank you for your very detailed explanation of some of the current issues here in SCS.
In the very beginning of your letter, you make mention that, in the absence of information, human nature is to assume the worst. We all know what happens when one assumes...
So, can you clarify the statement made recently by one of your zone reps in regard to the April 1 surprise that you have for SCS? Did this person speak out of turn, or let the cat out of the bag in regard to the standardized $129.00 amenity fee for everyone here in SCS?
The amenity fees and how they are used seems to be the primary bone of contention here.
Are there any immediate plans to update the workout equipment (it's unsafe) at the community center, repair the leaks in the pool or re-surface the tennis courts?
In retrospect, do you now think that you and your investors paid too much for this community? The word is that you said you did and when you can't make any money here, you will dump the place!
Are you cutting back on repairs and improvements in this community just to increase your profit line?
2/23/2011 TO ADDRESS THE COMMENT FROM THE 17 YEAR RESIDENT AS TO HOW MUCH THEY WILL BE CHARGED FOR THE LAWYERS FEES, IT'S NOW "0" THEY HAVE TAKEN IT ON A CONTINGENTCY. BUT TO BE HONEST WITH YOU I AND MANY OTHERS PUT NO PRICE ON THE CONDITION WE LIVE UNDER TO GET IT CHANGED. COMING FROM A PRIVATE COUNTRY CLUB WHERE THEY UPDATE THEIR DECOR EVERY 6 YEARS THIS IS AN SORE EYE OPENER TO SAY THE LEAST. IF YOU THINK THAT 20 YEAR OLD AMENITYS ARE WONDERFUL YOU CERTAINLY NEED YOUR EYES CHECKED OR GET A REFUND ON THE GLASSES YOU'RE NOW WEARING. I'M SURE YOU WILL BE ONE OF THE FIRST ONES THAT WILL BE ENJOYING ALL THE UPDATES THAT WE AS THE INITIAL GROUP ARE WORKING MANY HOURS TO GAIN CONTROL OF AND IMPROVE OUR COMMUNITY FOR ALL THE ONES THAT DON'T HAVE THE ENERGY NOR STRENGTH TO DO SO. WE ARE NOT A FEW OF DISGRUNTLED HOME OWNERS, AS OF TODAY THERE APPROXIMATELY 1200 OR MORE PEOPLE THAT HAVE SIGNED ON BOARD. I AM JUST WONDERING WHERE KEN KIRKPATRICK LIVES, AND IF HIS WIFE, IF HE HAS ONE, WOULD BE HAPPY AND PROUD TAKING HER FAMILY AND FRIENDS TO A CLUB HOUSE/COMMUNITY CENTER LIKE OURS. IF SHE WOULD USE OUR FALLING APART EXERCISE EQUIPMENT, LOUNGE IN THE SPA AND LEAKING POOL THAT DOESN'T STAY HEATED, THEN PLAY TENNIS OR PICKLE BALL ON OUR COURT. SHE WOULD CERTAINLY HAVE TROUBLE DISTIGUISHING THE PICKLE BALL LINES FROM THE TENNIS LINES, SINCE THEY ARE BOTH ON ONE COURT. YES WE HAD 3 CRACKED UP TENNIS COURTS, BUT NOW WE HAVE 2 TENNIS COURTS, AND ONE TENNIS/PICKLE BALL COURT. HOW CHEAP CAN YOU GET!! THEN OF COURSE DO LUNCH AT THE RESTURANT THAT WE DON'T HAVE ANYMORE. YES YOU HAD MORE AMENITIES 20 YEARS AGO THEN NOW. OH AND BY THE WAY DID YA HEAR THEY ARE PAVING THE GOLF COURSE PARKING LOT NEXT. GEEE THAT GOLF COURSE SURE BENEFITS US DOESN'T IT, IS THAT PART OF THE $10.00 PER MONTH THEY ARE TAKING OUT?? IS THAT CONSIDERED ONE OF OUR AMENITIES? IF YOU WISH TO CONTACT ME PLEASE DO SO, MY EMAIL ADDRESS IS TIAGERI@AOL.COM
2/23/2011 Dear Moderator.
2/23/2011 Homeowner Abuse
2/23/2011 Response to re-paving?
When I asked, one of the workers said, "the asphalt was bad and didn't pass inspection."
I asked who inspected the job, Marion County? The response was yes...he thought so.
The sweeper cleaned up 95th Cir. yesterday but didn't do a very good job of cleaning up the left over asphalt covered stone(s).
1/22/2011 In response to the person talking about the possibility of having
fixed ammenity fees for all. This is the best idea
I have heard so far. For those original homeowners that are paying
the small fees, just wait until your kids take
over your home or if you have to sell your home. When the buyer sees
that they will have to pay $160/month
for amenity fees...NO SALE!! We need FIXED amenity fees, and they
should be reduced and in line with
what other developements are paying.
2/22/2011 $129 Amenity Fee for All
2/21/2011 The last I heard over a week ago, after the bulk of the petitions were turned in with 700 plus names, was that management and their lawyers now wanted to talk or negotiate.
This was after one of Kirkpatrick's people, a zone rep, told another resident that Kirkpatrick told their members that there are only a couple hundred "disgruntled residents" that are pushing this action.
Have we sat down and talked or negotiated? Negotiate what? More stalling and delays?
I have heard from more than one source that come April 1, Kirkpatrick has a surprise for the residents. The surprise is reported to be an adjustment to the amenity fees to $129.00 for every resident of SCS. Does anyone in the know have any comment(s) on this?
If this is true, I can't imagine that this will set very well for those residents who have been here the longest and are paying less than that now.
Maybe it's an April Fools joke on managements part? They have to understand that this situation is NO joke!
2/20/2011 FS 720.303 (8) ASSOCIATION FUNDS; COMMINGLING.--
(c) Association funds may not be used by a developer to defend a civil or criminal action, administrative proceeding, or arbitration proceeding that has been filed against the developer or directors appointed to the association board by the developer, even when the subject of the action or proceeding concerns the operation of the developer-controlled association.
2/20/2011 720.3086 Financial report.--
2/19/11 To the person who asked what has happened since the Attorney's Letter was sent to Management last fall. Lots of STALLING ON THE PART OF MANAGEMENT, that's what. First management wanted all of us to prove we own property in SCS. LOL (laugh out loud) All they had to do was check the Official Records at Marion County to get proof of who owns which lot in this community. Another STALL tactic. Show me your closing packages, they demanded. My closing package from 9 years ago is not proof that I own a lot today. Then in response to our Attorney's request for income and expense statements for each year since this community was sold by ERP, they sent a bunch of numbers that in no, way, shape or form even a CPA could make sense of. More STALL, more DELAY. Maybe they think we are going to get tired of all this and go away. WE ARE NOT!!!!!! Residents who went door to door with the Petition shared facts with their neighbors and for those who haven't used the community facilities for awhile, it was an eye opener. When there is more information we will make it available to the community. If you weren't home when a petitioner stopped by and you wish to sign, send me an email. firstname.lastname@example.org Publish my address.
2/19/2011 I sent this and it was returned as you can see below. Can you fulfill the request below. I am not good at doing the computer stuff at state site. Thanks so much
I just found the site ourscs. Read your paragraph. When we moved in here we were given a copy that was almost unreadable and now I am finding out that it did not include all the pages. Could you send me a copy of the complete documents. Please include bylaws and any other info you might have. I can only open documents in works. Could you send in that format.
Thank you very much for your help. We just moved here in Sept. and are really concerned. I read the restrictions before we purchase and really thought they covered us. Guess we made a mistake. Really need to read and understand what is going on.
2/18/2011 The lawyers letter seemed to address all the issues. It was written
August 20, 2010 and it gives Heritage until September J, 2010 to
respond (whatever J means). There are a couple other typo errors also
which I assume was done by the web designer (maybe not). Anyway, the
deadline was 4 months ago. Did Heritage ever respond to the letter?
Has the claim been filed? Any new developements?
2/17/2011 Going for a stroll around the neighborhood, I noticed that several streets, namely 95th circle and 102nd avenue were recently paved for a second time. However, I noticed that some asphalt chips were lying in the concrete gutters running into the catch basins. Frankly, this looks like a second hand job no one from SCI bothered to take a broom and clean up the mess, it looks awful. I recently received a notice to clean my driveway which looks far better than the asphalt chips. Just curious if "security" is going to issue violations to those people who have the chips around their property. Where is the curb appeal from management?
2/14/2011 Happy Valentine's Day!
What I like about this site is that people can say what they want, even though sometimes folks are rather rude. I do find the site hard to read because it is hard to tell where each comment begins. I really liked the idea of leaving an ID name so others can respond. I leave my name and email if anyone cares to communicate directly regarding any issue I have brought up on this site.
I have learned in canvassing many streets for signatures that there are many seniors here who really are having a difficult time due to their own ill health or that of their spouse. My friend and I wondered if we need a support group for those individuals who can no longer get out for basic things like picking up medications or even grocery shopping. If anyone would care to become involved and could offer a few hours helping someone occasionally, please send me an email. We first need a team of helpers in order to even start something like this and maybe others know a lot more than I do as to how this might come about. Anybody??? email@example.com Publish my address please.
I say leave things the way the have been since the site was started. It appears to get the job done.
To those that wish us to sign our name --- I suspect you would also like to enter the poll booth with us to see how we vote. I accept your right to express your views. Please accept my wishes to close the curtain when I vote and leave this comment unsigned. Thanks very much
2/14/2011 I agree that Spruce Creek South Concerned Residents (SCSCR) is an excellent name. Perhaps we should add ourselves as a "group" to the eNeighbors website for more visibility. I also agree that these e-mails should be "signed" to help put them in context as to how many contributors of comments there are, and how many contribute large volumes of comments and how many just one comment. Call me August2000.
2/13/2011 I noticed at the top of the 'petition' which is circulating that it says "Spruce Creek South Concerned Residents".
2/13/2011 I have been reading though these email postings, trying to get up to speed on what is going on in the community, and it is really hard to follow the conversation. Anonymous senders addressing anonymous previous emails???? You don't have to give a real name or email, but it would be beneficial to the conversation if everybody at least signed off each of their emails with the same unique screen name like: "golf nut" or "cat lady", or "american idol fan 72". That way specific comments can be address, and multiple emails from the same person can be looked at as a whole. It will help develop your point of view and prevent one email from being taken out of context.
2/12/2011 1000 resdents
Wow, according to a recent posting on this site, over 1000 residents have signed a petition or something of the sort.
That means well over half our residents are on a mission. GOOD LUCK.
2/11/2011 Since over 1,000 residents signed the circulating petition, the group needs some type of identification that the residents opposed to the current treatment of their amenities fees can identify with. The "tea party" came into existence during the last election, people can relate to the name. Perhaps the group can incorporate a name such as the "green party" or another name that seems appropriate. Just a thought.
2/11/2011 I just read through the volumes of e-mails regarding the SCS Homeowners Association or lack of one. In all e-mails but one no one signed there names. I agree with most of the comments but have several issues. Who is managing this site, messages are listed over and over and over. Makes it difficult to go through all the information.Tonight, 2/11/2011, was the first time anyone with a petition to sign and support your position approached me. They did not have any information only a sign up sheet. If you ask me to sign something please have some support information available. I will not sign anything without reading what's it about.
I have issues with Heritage Management but will handle then in the proper way. For instance a price list was published for replacement street lights and gate openers. Each was listed at $44.52 each. I just bought the same light fixture at Home Depot for $34.00 or so and a gate opener for $15.95 plus $4.95 shipping and received it in four days. I didn't think Heritage was a profit center but I guess they are trying to be.
In any case if you have an opinion and trash someone else please have enough courage to sign your name and give an e-mail address.
Jon Teli, 17852 SE 96 Ave. 770 335-4692, firstname.lastname@example.org
2/9/2011 In reference to our 'deed restrictions'. I, too, have read and re-read the restrictions. It is, however, only a part of the recorded documents (Marion County Clerk of Courts, public record). There are important Articles of Incorporation and BY LAWS for Spruce Creek South. Many residents have never read the Articles of Incorporation and By Laws which govern this community. I called the lawyers in Tallahassee who represent FREC (Florida Real Estate Commission) and he said it is very important that the residents read the By Laws....it is these By Laws which set up how the Homeowners Association is to be run. IT IS a voting entity!! Read these Articles of Incorporation and BY LAWS. When you buy into a PUD, it does not necessarily mean that residents have a homeowners assocation; however, Spruce Creek South, DOES. Administration should ALWAYS provide these Articles of Incorporation and By Laws along with Deed Restrictions. If you have a copy of the Deed Restrictions, you will note the Book # 1583 and begins with Page 241, ending on Page 267. However, same Book #1583 beginning with Page 268 you will find the Articles of Incorporation and By Laws which continue through Page 283. Article IV Duration state the corporation (Spruce Creek South Homeowners' Association, Inc. ' see Article I Name) shall have perpetual existence. The only way a HOA can be dissolved is by a vote of 90% of the membership according to Florida Laws governing HOAs.
Spruce Creek South Homeowners' Association, Inc. is still 'alive' but NOT 'well' as it has never been set up according to the By Laws. SCS HOA has been filed for a number of years (the last being March 2, 2010) with the Secretary of State as a Not-For-Profit Corporation, Document #N32373, by Kenneth B. Kirpatrick and is listed as the only officer of director. This is not in agreement with the the By Laws!)...3 Directors and 4 Officers; there can be more Directors but never less!
No, we are not a condominium community. The big difference is that condominiums have common walls, roofs, and foundations. Therefore, there is one general insurance policy which covers the entire complex rather than each resident paying a separate insurance policy; buildings painted all at once; roof replacement all at one time, entire building maintenance. However, the HOA for these complexes are set up with Directors and Officers just as in communities such as ours. Same rules for meeting, voting rights, annual financial reports, and preservation of all recorded minutes of all meetings. I know that for a fact because I was a Secretary in a Condominium complex in the State of Florida.
Get a copy of our Articles of Incorporation and By Laws and read and re-read!! Administration should have a copy of these and provide them to you! If not, they are Public Record and can be obtained from the Marion County Clerk of Court records.
If you have a computer, go to www.heritagemanagement.net, click on 'Contact Us' and you will see a list showing Ken Kirkpatrick, President; Randy Bliss, Commercial Sales Division; James Day, Property Management Division; Joe Fante, Controller.
I would encourage every resident to at least walk through the spa, 'fitness center, pool, etc. One of these days you may have to sell your home and have to show these to potential buyers and they will be very turned off by the condition of these amenities; I have had that happen twice already. It only takes a visual inspection to determine these are in deplorable condition for such a community.....no engineering degree needed to figure that out!
Sorry, haven't heard complaints from Stonecrest or the Villages such as the ones here. Del Webb's Spruce Creek has an extraordinary HOA....managed by the Homeowners....according to our BY LAWS! No reason why it couldn't be done here! Just need residents and management who care!
One day you will wish you had!!
2/8/2011 Please, please, writers to this site, take out your copy of the “Protective Deed Restrictions and Covenants for Spruce Creek South.”
Manyresidents probably never have read them. However, many were pleased years ago when their salesman told you, “We have restrictions here. ” Most replied, “That’s good, that’s why we are moving here.” Yet today, if they get a violation notice, they claim they are being picked upon. Recently a record amount of violations have been cited compared to those cited in the past.
Folks, you live in a PUD. “A Planned Unit Development.” We are NOT a condominium. As a homeowner you do not own any part of the common grounds. You have an easement to use the common areas. This means you have a right to USE and ENJOY them. This right is granted by the developer.
The developer has the right to amend, modify or terminate at any time rules and regulations for the use of the common areas.
Assessments levied by the developer shall be used in the SOLE and ABSOLUTE discretion of the developer for the purpose of promoting the recreation, health, safety and welfare of the residents of SCS, including, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, reasonable profit for the developer or its assigns.
Home Owners Association at SCS means an organization to PROVIDE for the recreational, social and cultural activities at SCS. IT IS NOT A VOTING ENTITY.
In simple terms, residents own their homes and lot and the right of entrance and egress to such lot and home. Owners must conform to the restrictions that “follow the deed.”
It is my understanding the new owner of the common areas is trying to reach out to everyone at SCS in order to update, modify, or improve these “old” Covenants for the betterment of the community.
Please, if you have an idea that might do this, to improve our community, bring it up in a civil fashion.
On the other hand if you have an ax to grind, please base your opinion on facts and not rumors, or gossip.
Twenty-five years from now most of us will be gone. SCS will still be here. (Yes, home values here as elsewhere will improve in time.) Many of these future residents will be dissatisfied with the same things that this and other deed restricted communities have debated for decades.
Note: Developer also means his or her Assigns.
2/7/2011 I can understand the frustrations and confusion of many of the residents in SCS who apparently are not aware of their rights (legally and recorded in the official records of Marion County and the State of Florida). I have been shocked by the number of residents who have lived here a decade or two and have NEVER received a copy of the yearly financial reports reflecting how their monies are being spent.....and never even asked for one!! I have lived in Florida nearly 40 years and have Never seen the astrocities of what is going on in here. The only reason a resident may 'have never heard of such doings' might just be that they are not aware of the rights they have as a homeowner in this 55+ community. It is most likely that they have never even been given a copy of the Articles of Incorporation and BY LAWS of this community which is as all...or MORE...important than the "Rules and Regulations". Ask for it!! You should be extremely grateful that there are those within this community who DO know and who ARE questioning what is going on.....trust me, you will one day thank these people in putting themselves 'out there' to reclaim our rights as homeowners and cleaning up this community.
Someone has written an earlier email indicating the condition of the unfit 'fitness center' in this community. It is an 'accident waiting to happen'. ANd I can assure you that if there is an accident in that unfit center that causes physical trauma/injury or an injury resulting in Death.....each and every one of the homeowners will be drawn into a lawsuit.......I'll guarantee you that the 'management' company will NOT go it alone. All of a sudden, 'they' will decide we have rights....and responsibilities.....in this community, even though we have been denied those rights or a voice in our community. You have been denied every right as a homeowner (governed by the ByLaws of the community), with no vote, no meetings, not even an annual financial report showing you how 'they' are spending your $$....yet, 'they' will make sure you get drawn into a lawsuit based on physical injury/fatality.....and not because of anything you have done....but what "THEY" have done. You'll be paying big $$$$$$too! Better start thinking on these things!!! More importantly, would you want to be responsible for causing injury or death to one of your neighbors!!! Apparently 'they' don't care, but I trust we, the homeowners, DO care!!
As far as anyone who is unhappy in here or "think it is better else were, then go!"....trust me, there has been. In the form of leaving empty homes facing foreclosure.....which is NOT a good thing for our community! This works 2 ways....for those of you who are unhappy that there are those who are willing to take the effort and work toward reclaiming our rights and a better community, then don't get in their way, just go!....find a place where people don't care. Be thankful for those who DO care! Trust me, you'll be grateful when you figure out what is going on!!
No, I don't care WHO 'they' pay their mortgage to, either. However, I DO care where my over-priced 'amenities' fee is deposited. I do not want my $$going into an account for 'Spruce Creek Recreation' ... this same Spruce Creek Recreation, LLC...has been registered by 'the one and the same' as a 55+ and Older Community with the State of Florida Commission on Human Realtions. If you want to pay out dollars every month to a community you don't even live in, that's your choice.....but I am sure not going to.....I am still in my right mind! Do you live in Spruce Creek Recreation, LLC, 55+ community, or do you live in Spruce Creek South?????????? Do you even know what account your $$are being deposited in? Might be smart to find out.... Suggest you read an earlier email about the truth of this fictitious community. Check it out yourself! It's all public record.
Check your most recent Marion County Telephone directory, the Business Listings section and you will find the phone number of this fictitious 55+ Community, Spruce Creek Rec LLC, as 347-7199. Our Front Gate!! Red flags, folks! Hello, is anybody 'in there'??
There has been a severe exploitation of the elderly/seniors in this community.....not only by the 'managing' folks but also by the brokerage firm (and parties) who have been infusing their own 'rules and regulations' to their own benefit while greatly sending the value of our nice homes in a downward spiral out of control. The relationship between the president of the 'management company' and this brokerage firm is definitely a 'conflict of interest'. This can be confirmed by talking with an attorney (free) from the Florida Real Estate Commission. This is a great infraction and should be reported to the Florida Real Estate Commission.
Having a meeting of over 1500 folks all at one time would be utter chaos....until what time those who 'have heard of such things' can pull together the numerous infractions and present it to those who are willing to listen and educate themselves into those legal and lawful documents which protect us.
Thanks to those who have been willing to extend themselves to protect our community and homes. Keep in mind that it is also very difficult to lead the blind or the deaf!!!
2/4/2011 Good evening, friends and neighbors: First of all, let me apologize that I indicated LLC means Limited Liability Corporation......should have said 'Company'. However, that is NOT the issue. It is important that we understand that LLC means that should the company have a lawsuit placed upon it or should it go bankrupt, the personal home and personal possessions of the Owner(s) of this company would not be seized; only those assets of the LLC. It does not give the company any extra control over anything else.
My concern, In order to reduce any unnecessary anxiety to our residents, Spruce Creek Golf, Inc. did NOT purchase the 'community'. What they purchased (or are purchasing) are those certain assets which were deeded to Spruce Creek Development; those assets which include any lots and/or parcels of land on which the golf course, pro shop, clubhouse, restaurant, community building, old administration building which houses the 'golf college', tennis courts, pool, etc. etc., vacant lots; any equipment belonging to Spruce Creek Development which was used in maintenance of the golf course, etc. Each of us purchased lots within the platted subdivision called Spruce Creek South as recorded with the Clerk of Courts for Marion County. The 'community' is OURS also, the portions of the community on which our individual homes are built.....and for which each of us received the recorded Warranty Deed with OUR respective names as the owners of these parcels. The $7,000,000+ that was paid/being paid to Spruce Creek Development were NOT for OUR parcels but only those that were owned by the development company and recorded as such in the Marion County records. To purport otherwise adds confusion.
Our greatest concern should be that as each of us made purchases in this community, it was disclosed to us that we were required to join the Homeowners Association, that the Homeowners Association FEE was $xxx (depending on the amount at the time of purchase), to be paid monthly; and recently an amount above the HOA fee as a 'maintenance' fee of $10 for roads.
The By Laws at the time this development started were recorded as well; By Laws which set forth how this homeowners association was to be set up and run. These ByLaws were meant to guarantee that each lot owner would have the right to vote on how the funds would be spent, who would serve on the Board (3 Directors) and 4 Officers who would be nominated and voted upon by the Homeowners. There were to be meetings and an annual financial report mailed out to each and every homeowner every year! We all know that has not happened. In addition our monthly fee should be made out to the Spruce Creek South Homeowners Association and deposited into an account that is NOT co-mingled with any funds in any other bank account set up by any property management company or any other organization!
Go back to my previous email indicating that I have been instructed to make my check out to 'Spruce Creek Recreation.....and that Spruce Creek Recreation LLC has been recorded as a 55+ Community with the Florida Commission on Human Relations. I DO not live in that community ....and neither do any of you.....so I have no intentions of writing out a check to a factitious community and spent by whoever claims that such a community exists. That is my position.
I did insist on getting a copy of the annual financial statement for these past 2 years.....you have the right to do so, too, and administration canNOT deny providing this to you. (I also encourage you to inquire when the 2010 annual report is available and INSIST upon receiving a copy.) There are 2 financial reports: 1) Spruce Creek Recreation, Operating Account which discloses over $2.4M received....that amount being what should be the homeowners fee 2) Spruce Creek Homeowners Association financial report which shows only the total amount of the $10 month road assessment fee! These 2 financial reports should be just the opposite....the $2.4M deposited in a Spruce Creek Homeowners Association account and the $10/mo road assessment fee in a separate account for maintenance. There are multiple issues that need to be addressed in this community.
But most importantly remember, this is OUR community, collectively, and there is No one single person or entity who should be taking away personal rights in SCS.
We have been 'endowed with certain unalienable rights" ... couldn't resist ! :-) Keep in mind that sense of humor is a great survival tool.....and will get us through those 'rough spots' in life. Let's jointly work together and take back those rights that we have in order to protect the value of OUR community and our homes! We have all worked hard over the years to be able to live in peace in our homes and not be violated. What we are experiencing is definitely 'exploitation of seniors and/or the elderly'. That is dispicable!
Enjoy a great evening! Tomorrow is another day.
Given this news, I feel everyone here in SCS should be deeply concerned over the reported use of our monthly amenity payments however, before everyone gets all worked up over this, I know I am, the first question that has to be asked and answered is…is this use of the amenity monies legal and allowed under Florida law?
If it is, then there is nothing that can be done about it except suck it up and move on to the next issue. We all know there are plenty of issues here to be dealt with.